Re: [pilc] RE: AD request / L2 Triggers Chapter Statement

From: Aaron Falk (falk@isi.edu)
Date: Tue Jul 09 2002 - 18:59:25 EDT

  • Next message: Lloyd Wood: "Re: [pilc] RE: AD request / L2 Triggers Chapter Statement"

    On Tue, Jul 09, 2002 at 05:20:22PM -0400, Phil Neumiller wrote:
    >
    > Protocols for the Internet are not to be replaced but MAY surely be improved for
    > wireless devices right?

    If it's not backwards compatible with the existing protocols, it
    sounds like a replacement. I think specific proposals are needed to
    discuss this point further.

     
    > If you don't agree; can you explain to me how QoS for wired/wireless links is going
    > to work properly without L2 trigger events providing feedback to/through IP?
    > How about fast and seamless handovers for wireless devices to from other wired
    > and wireless devices.

    Well, I'm in the camp that needs to be convinced that fast mobility
    isn't better handled at the link layer.

    > B). The physics of wireless links is different from that of fixed links. It is different
    > enough to warrant at least some specialized treatment.

    My understanding is that link technologies can overcome many of the
    physical limitations of wireless networks (e.g., BER). We've looked
    at this in detail in draft-ietf-pilc-link-design-11.txt. The place
    where things seem to break down is where handoffs are occurring
    between different link layer networks (e.g., 3g to 802.11). However,
    this isn't a limitation of the physics of wireless networks.

    On the other hand, if you are talking about the fact that your big ftp
    stalls when you go into a tunnel with your wireless handheld. Well,
    do you really think this is big enough problem to rearchitect the
    TCP/IP stack? The Internet was design to support subnet heterogeneity
    and specifically avoided optimizing for specific technologies.
    (http://www.isi.edu/newarch/DOCUMENTS/rtb.IPAM.mar02.pdf has a
    discussion of the design principles of the Internet that you might
    find interesting.) Basically, the "specialized treatment" you suggest
    is best applied locally, i.e., at the link.

    > E). TCP is currently broken for wireless (I know there is work on
      going).

    I find this statement surprising. "Broken" is a very strong word.
    Where is this documented? We've been working on TCP performance over
    wireless networks in PILC for two (three?) years now and this is the first time
    I've heard it described as broken. Perhaps your definition of broken
    (& wireless, for that matter) is different from mine. Anyways,
    references would help.

    Regards,

    --aaron

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